why are you awake. here are some of the answers. let's hear them. >> john writes because i have a hungry 5-month-old. >> okay. we appreciate that. i don't think he's hungry, just hungry for information on "morning joe," starting in a few minutes. >> yeah. susan writes i am awake because the bear forging for berries tripped the motion light that woke me up. >> we appreciate that. rob, thanks very much. "morning joe" begins right now. the president made clear, he wants the largest deal possible. he wants to reduce the deficit. he's willing to go into areas he's not been comfortable going into. >> he used that -- >> good morning to you. it is monday, july 18th. this is not cross fire.

i'm peter alexander sitting in along with mike barnicle in boston. joining us here at the table, pat buchanan, jonathan capehart and ed rendell back at the table. nice to see you. visiting professor at nyu, gerald ford jr. we are going to go into the 2012 race coming up. who is the most likely alternative to mitt romney and who has the best chance to beat president obama. a look at the war in afghanistan. now the longest war. how do we get out? does obama's policy differ from president bush's and what is the effect for generations to come?

joe and mika and willie join in the conversation later this hour. we begin with the debt crisis. they are trying to make a deal on the deficit. houses of congress are rolling out separate compromises to safe off a default. harry reid is meeting with mitch mcconnell to craft a solution to appeal to both parties. according to reports, this would do the following. it would allow the debt ceiling to be raised three times for a total of $2.5 trillion. in exchange, some $1.5 trillion in spending cuts would be enacted. the plan would be established to identify new deficit cuts. proposal, already, getting a lukewarm response from the fellow republicans. among them, the freshman snar mark arubio and tom coburn.

take a listen. >> it gives the president the ability to raise the debt limit. the debt limit isn't the problem. the problem is the debt. the plan, as outlined to me isn't a credible solution. >> i think the mcconnell plan is more of washington not taking responsibility for -- it's a great political plan. it takes all the pressure off all the politicians and we pass a debt limit without making the hard choices we have the make. >> pat, what do we make of this? for a lot of americans, it feels like we have made no progress. >> senator mcconnell giving the ball to barack obama in the end zone saying let us out of here. you make all the decisions on the budget cuts and we get to vote them up or down. we are not going to vote them down. i think, basically, this is by the republicans in the senate saying we don't want the fight. we want to retreat on this front

and fight on another front. >> right. right. retreat on this front, but as peter reported, there would be three bites of the apple to raise the debt ceiling for $2.5 trillion. every time democrats would have to vote on it, it gives republicans a club over the democrats in a presidential election year. claire mccaskill, you think she wants to do this three times next year? i don't think so. >> there's a positive to be looked at. a week and a half ago we were in an argument about whether to vote on it. we are now at a point where it doesn't look like we are going to default on our debt. for us to voluntarily default, it would be a hardship around the world and here. as a former governor, you would understand as well as any, you

can see a path to an answer that encourages people. >> it's a path to an answer. it's also very disappointing. we had the opportunity to do something with the deficit. it took people of good will on both sides compromising. the great rolling stones song, "you can't always get what you want." we could have done something good for the country. we are kicking the can down the road. yes, we are avoiding default, but god knows when it's going to get done. >> mike, there's a headline, beyond the beltway and yawns on budget talks. can we put it in the simplest of language? why does it matter when it feels inside the beltway right now? >> your average american, no matter where he or she works, i don't care where you work, dry cleaners, public school, police station, downtown office, no one could work in an environment like the house and senate.

business would come to a standstill. it couldn't happen. people know they are ridiculous. you just turned mark arubio, freshman senator from florida say the problem here is the debt. guess what? the problem here is nobody is working. there's 14% to 15% real unemployment in this country. take a walk around the block marco. >> the problem here is a tremendous conflict between the two parties and their fundmental philosophy of where the country ought to go. the house republicans are one side of this. they are going to come out for cut, cap and balance. cut spending all the way to 20% of gdp. get rid of half the deficit. then, you know, cap the spending and pass the balanced budget amendment. it's going to be popular with constituents and with the country to balance the amendment. it's going nowhere. it does tell you, they are willing to go to the wall, go

down to defeat for what they believe in. the reason republicans can't get anything in the house, they can't raise the debt ceiling. >> what the republicans believe is no tax increases. they believe in cuts. that's a fair deal. >> pat, republicans should have raised the victory flag, taken the deal and said it was 3-1 spending cuts to revenue

increases. 83-17%. most importantly, it's good for the country. >> ed, george h.w. bush took the deal. remember read my lips, no new taxes? i'll raise them, then take a deal. one term, he was gone. republicans sign on to tax increases now, after they have sworn to the people -- >> they are not tax increases. >> tell it to the americans. >> these are things the american people support. 38% of american corporations pay no taxes. close the loophole. >> they are standing up for their principles and it's what they were sent to washington to do. >> no, they were sent to washington to govern. you get elected to govern. >> that's what president obama was elected to do. they are going to lateral him the football. >> congress is elected to come in to be antagonistic and problematic? no, they were elected to govern. i respect your point, pat, the only point is republicans should

not hide about when to balance and when to lower the debt. they stand for no new taxes on the wealthiest americans. >> why don't you -- why don't democrats agree to the balanced budget amendment, part of the republican package. >> it's bad policy. congress should do its job and pass budgets where the nation can live within its means. we are not out of the woods, yet. we are going to avoid default. we don't know that, yet. that is not guaranteed. we have a long way to go. we have two weeks before we hit the ceiling and the ratings agency are waiting to see, giving us until the 22nd to get our act together. mark arubio said something and got it wrong. if you do not raise the debt ceiling, it's as if you went out

and got a car and decided not to make the payments. it's not giving the united states more blank checks. the united states must pay the bills. if the debt ceiling is not raised, a world of hurt is raised. >> we are not the only one with problems. larry somers is urging members of the g-20 to become more vocal to do what is best for their econo economy's as well. if europe does not get the crisis under control soon, the g-20 nations should become more aggressive. the comments come ahead of euro zone leaders in brussels later this week. the group is expected to discuss a financial rescue package. greece is seeking another bail out package to keep them financed through 2014 until they

can return to financial markets and pay their own bills, fund themselves. hillary clinton made a stop in athens today voicing strong support for greece as the country struggles to overcome their own financial issues. clinton saying quote, americans know these are difficult days and we stand with you as friends and allies. the way europe relates to us is becoming all too familiar. how does it relate? >> you know, peter, i get the global implications of the worldwide economy. i think everyone does. we live in a worldwide economy. the competition is no longer down the block. it's china, india and places like that. just listening to the discussion this morning, listening to the different points of view, you expand the different points of view, put them in a polarized poisonous, toxic atmosphere, congress, and it's governing. we can't govern ourselves.

is this country ungovernable? it's the question in our minds and the minds of a lot of young people. where are we going as a nation. they go to washington and behave like clowns. that's a huge, huge problem. >> mike's point is spot on. even pat is saying we have a different philosophy on governing. when obama was elected he made promises. after that, he said he would close guantanamo bay. then he saw the information. after the elections, democrats said we would not extend the bush tax cuts, we did it. with larger deal around don't ask don't tell. i think it's important for politicians and those elected to want to govern and be bigger than the moment. remember, peter asked the most important question at the beginning, the real issue for voters is not the debt ceiling,

they are wondering when is congress going to create jobs. this should be an easy one around the debt ceiling. make the cuts. >> let's take the state of minnesota where you have to balance the budget. governor mark dayton shut down the government. it's not a taxing problem. mark dayton came back, he did not raise taxes, he took the republican deal. illinois, they went the other way. this battle is going on all across america. and in greece. greece is going to default. that country is insolvent. the banks are not going to be paid back. they are holding those poor people's head under water. >> mike. >> pat, what's interesting is if you walk around and go do your grocery shopping on the weekend and put gas in your car and listen to what is out there, listen to people, this is all

pretty simple. they are making it more difficult in washington than it has to be. it comes down to this, people want to know about our elected officials in the house and senate, hey, why don't you do something for the country before your own political party? do something for your country. >> let me say this. they believe that if they don't hold the line and they don't stop the taxes from going up, their country is headed down the same road as all these countries in europe and they are determined to do it. they could be wrong and you would ask. >> pat, that's not the issue. the issue is you have a divided government. you have to make it work. when i was governor, a whole slew of programs i wanted to enact. i compromised every one of them to get them passed. every one of them. that's what we have to do now. >> we have time to talk about this, i'm guessing, two more weeks. up next, the politico top

stories. mika and joe heading a round table discussion for 2012. what is behind michele bachmann's success and how much should it affect mitt romney. first, bill karins. >> this heat wave is going to be historic. not because of the record high but the duration of the heat wave. st. louis could be 100 degrees for seven days in a row with an impressive humidity. it's not a dry heat. look at washington, d.c. this could last into saturday and sunday. today, thunderstorms. still warm. the thunderstorms cool us off. we have 100 degrees in dallas for 17 straight days. today will be 18. we are 100 in dallas. look, we have 100 degree heat up into montana. as i said, all this and the

humidity shift to the east coast in the days ahead. be prepared. this is going to be a long summer week. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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i think the house will cut cap and balance. it will take the government spending back to around 2008 spending levels. it will have a cap on spending over the next decade to wipe out the debts in a ten-year period

and require the passage of the amendment and raise the debt limit. that will be the republican position in the house almost unanimously. as a nation we are becoming greece and borrowing 40 cents of every dollar. a child born today has $46,000 of debt. now is the time to do real things that matter. >> it doesn't sound so pleasant. let's look at the morning papers. new york times, president obama passing over elizabeth when he elected the former general of ohio to lead the protection bureau. it was warren's idea. the harvard professor became a target for republicans on capitol hill. only one in five elite gop

fund-raisers donated to republicans vying for the white house. that's according to a new analysis of campaign reports. it offers one side of a republican field that is unsettled six months before the iowa caucuses. >> there was all this talk of carmageddon. the 405 freeway opened hours ahead of schedule on sunday. look at that. they made progress. a ten-mile stretch was closed due to construction. officials warned people to stay home worried it could cause epic traffic jams. everybody headed to the waters. it was a mess along the shores. get a boat. it's a mess in l.a. joining us now, the politico playbook chief white house correspondent, mike allen. nice to see you now.

lance armstrong is under federal investigation for doping. now, he's turning the table on the feds. what's up with that? >> good morning, guys. you are doing a great job of house sitting. >> appreciate it. >> lance arm strong is the target of the grand jury in los angeles that's looking into doping that might have occurred during cycling races. there have been all kind of leaks about what's going on. an investigator going to france, who they are talking to. they haven't talked to lance arm strong. he's gone to court to say the feds should shut up. this is character assassination. if he were to be tried and cleared, there have been so many stories about what went on while he was on the tour de france team, he would be guilty in a lot of people's minds. >> what about roger clemmons, the federal government deficit.

they spend $100,000 trying to get clemmons alone. let's get back to business here. come on. >> amen. this is per postrouse. it's cheating. let them take care of it. why do the feds have to get in on it. you are bringing u.s. attorneys in on this nonsense. >> the guy ride as bike for a living. >> he's done plenty for good. he's made millions for cancer research. also on this topic, california democrat, maxine waters was set to stand trial of abuse of power. now the charges may be dismissed. what's the latest there? >> a pile, a couple hundred documents from the ethics committee, which is rare to get your hands on. he found lawyers who worked for the committee shared information

about the maxine waters investigation and our friend charlie rangel and his investigation outside the place she should have. the lawyers were suspended. now, congresswoman waters is saying the improper handling of material means she should get off. now there's pressure to drop the charges because of their staff's careless handling of that information. >> this is stunk from the very beginning. you can't link what happened to congresswoman waters with congressman rangel. i looked into the waters situation. it was a very -- the charges that she specifically went and got something done for a bank where her husband was on the board and could profit, it doesn't pan out. she's stuck to her guns, she is not guilty of anything, hasn't broken rules or broken the

spirit of rules. i agree with her. she's pushing to get the charges dropped. at least, at a minimum, she can clear her name and get on doing the business of representing her constituents. >> mike, we appreciate it. >> have a great week. when we come back, michele bachmann's strong start in iowa and what it means to mitt romney. >> mika and joe are going to sit down with an all-star panel to talk about ending america's war. the women's u.s. soccer team reacting to their collapse in the world cup final. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪ [ p.a. announcer ] announcing america's favorite cereal

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good monday morning to you. today republican presidential candidate michelle bachmann making campaign stops in iowa. she's gaining momentum in the hawk eye state.

joe, mika and willie join us. >> here we are in new york with mike barnicle and alex wag near. in washington, pat buchanan. i still can't get over the poll that came out last week, everybody has been talking about it. michelle bachmann. >> this is nationwide, not just iowa. there was an iowa poll out last week that looked like this as well. michelle bachmann now almost doubling mitt romney's lead. i'm sorry. i'm skeptical that this is going to last. pat, what do you say? >> joe, take a look at that poll, again. add up the numbers of michele bachmann, rick perry, sarah palin, you get to 47, throw ron paul in there, it's over 50. there's a huge gap, wide open on

the right socially conservative side of the republican party. mitt romney ought to watch himself, joe. i don't think he's going to get away with talking about just the economy, the economy, the economy. i have never seen an opening this wide with a front-runner that's a sen tryst. >> pat, i cannot believe michele bachmann came out of nowhere, a congresswoman out of nowhere and almost doubling mitt romney and everybody else in the field. what is going on? what do people see in michele bachmann? >> one thing is awe then sisty. the second thing is clear conviction. the third thing is she's a very attractive personal package. people are hungry for something new, i think, and different. she could have a howard dean

prop or peeking too early. right now, romney better take a look at realize this kind of electricity and excitement, these are things that can, at times overcome a well managed, well structured attractive candidate. >> mike barnicle, mitt romney tried in 2008. it was disastrous. nobody believed him. he can't go there, again. >> there's one addition that i make about michele bachmann. she has discipline. >> discipline? >> how does that match with authentici authenticity. she seems like a different person. >> i don't know that she does. she sounds like a different person. >> this is someone that's questioned the minimum wage. she's questioned the e.p.a. she has ed rollins and is dialling back.

if she's going to get out of iowa she has to change the radical right. >> that leads to pat's second point he raised. there's an opening unlike any he's seen before on the right in the republican primary. it's probably true given his knowledge of the base. i would also suggest the opening on the right means directly off a cliff in terms of being elected. >> mike, i don't say take it. i say cover your flank a bit. don't completely ignore the issues or voters or beliefs. joe is right, mitt romney running as a social conservative is not credible. taking a stance to defend is like leaving a secondary alignment on the field. >> we have seen this mika. donald trump comes in, shoots way up. bachmann shoots up.

it shows what a hunger there is for somebody, anybody other than mitt romney. i like mitt romney. i like his people. i like his family but boy, the republicans -- it's almost like the republican party keeps pushing him away. >> there was a poll a couple weeks ago that showed 6-10 republicans would vote for someone other than all the candidates they see here. they are not satisfied with the pool. it raises the question. the number for michelle bachmann is a place holder. >> i think it's a new york times poll. and there's that general feeling. it's like walking down the serial aisle. cocoa puffs, count chocula. she's more of a captain crunch. this idea she's a live wire.

she's incredibly compelling. for iowa, she's great. in the long run, you are seeing blow back from the establishment gop that says even tom ridge said look, i don't know that she has a legislative record to be our candidate in 2012. >> it's rooted him. it's in stark feel. >> yeah. >> there's fear. there's clear fear in the republican establishment that she could catch fire. look, when you start this thing, when you win iowa, if you win iowa big, that thing starts rolling through new hampshire and south carolina, it's over in weeks. i agree 100%. >> how was she going in philadelphia suburbs? how is she going to do in the i-4 corridor and in wisconsin? how is she going to do in new mexico, arizona? i would suggest, with swing

voters not well at all. >> there's no doubt if you nominate michele bachmann, it's an enormous risk. the only conditions, i think, under which i believe she could win the presidency, if people say, if they did in 1980, i don't care, i'm taking a chance with this guy because what we got we can't stand, you get 9% or 10% unemployment, two more years, this country is ready for a lot of change. more "morning joe" in a moment. with the hotels.com 48-hour sale,

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welcome back this morning to "morning joe." a milestone for general david petraeus as he hands over command of american forces in afghanistan. general john allen will assume the top spot as petraeus goes to new role as cia director. he'll maintain the momentum on the current campaign. the major issues surrounding the longest war now. editor and columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius, jack jacobs and mike barnicle as well as the combat veteran of the u.s. army, wes moore. >> david ignatius. david, of course you have returned from afghanistan. chaos continues. of course last week, karzai's half brother killed.

the question is, how do we get out of there? are we going to get out of there? how does it affect the 2012 election. >> i have the sense, joe, when i was there that everybody understands that the president's speech is the beginning of the draw down that will end in 2014. u.s. troops are on the way out. the question for me is what can we accomplish in the remaining two and a half years to stabilize the country so it doesn't turn into a mess, the vacuum we saw before where al qaeda took root. big trouble for us came our way. i did see programs that made me feel, above all, i wish we had done this five years ago. they are good programs and get at the heart of what's wrong in this country. >> of course afghanistan is not iraq. even in iraq, though, where we thought we made such positive gains, we are seeing chaos starting up again.

it seems to me that we can only keep our finger in the dike for so long. when we leave, everything explod explodes. >> that's basically true. there's a difference between a big, gigantic explosion that rips fabric of the region and a smaller explosion, you know, a really big mess and a little mess. what we have left behind in iraq is a little mess. the country isn't well governed. it's corrupt. compared to the civil war, the all-out mayhem, 100 dead bodies a day we were seeing at the worst period, things are a lot better. my hope is in afghanistan, we leave behind the little mess. it won't be 21st century country. maybe security forces are strong enough to keep the peace some of the time. i wouldn't go much beyond that. >> if we left iraq in 2006, at

the height of violence, a regional war would have erupted. >> there's an overall attitude or understanding that we are in the process of beginning to leave to be at least conservative about that. i want to bring wes in on this and also retired colonel jack jacobs who joins us as well about the risks of leaving and trying to dismantle the progr s programs. >> the original effort to try to turn afghanistan into a centrally governed country was amiss. there's no way you are going to be able to do that. pouring money and effort into developing a centrally organized and controlled army, also, is going to fall absolutely flat. the only way there will be progress where it will be a

minihell than a gigantic hell. they do the kinds of things in kandahar and the border of pakistan that will bring success to local areas. a country from kabul, it will never happen. we are wasting time and money. the fact we are leaving may assist in the development of stability in local areas. they will never be a centrally governed pakistan, i mean afghanistan. afghanistan is not like iraq. give me one more second and i'll tell you what i think is going to happen in iraq. we'll probably go back to having one bloodthirsty tyrant to rule the country. that's the irony of iraq. >> happy days, wes. >> afghanistan is extraordinarily tribal. it's difficult to have a conversation about afghanistan. one story i loved was one of the

things we did in afghanistan when i was working with the civil affairs team, giving out flags to children and local leaders. they would look at the flag and say what is this. you would have to explain, it's your country. there's another thing, i think you brought up a good point, joe. afghanistan is not iraq. you are right. there's a crucial player, though that factors in. that's iran. iran is not only very active and involved, but in addition to that, iran is part of the summit takes place in december between the leaders of pakistan, afghanistan and iran. iran is trying to show its hand in the larger conversation. how that plays out is going to have a lot to do with how they look a year from now.

>> how does it impact the 2012 election? are americans focused on afghanistan? are they going to be focused on afghanistan this time next year? >> probably not. i think it's difficult to get people to focus on we are at war in afghanistan. i think probably, the biggest goal right now is forced protegs. as you withdrawal troops, you don't want them exposed to the enemy in afghanistan. there is an enemy. it's not al qaeda in the strength that al qaeda existed several years ago. i's probably not the taliban. it's the history. the flow of the country. having dinner with a young marine corps captain, they said if they removed every weapon from the taliban and cleansed every village of a weapon, they

would throw rocks at us. they don't want us there. it's time to come home. >> john heilman, you are chasing them across america in this decade long war in afghanistan. are they talking about it? do they care about it? are they focused on it? do they talk? >> more of the latter than the former. people generally talk about it in the aspect of being asked about it. it's not on the top five list of voters. >> any presidential candidates? >> you have to have a position on it. what's interesting is because the public turned decisively against the wars. >> what does michele bachmann say? she's a tea party candidate. what does she say ability the

war? >> she's been relatively silent on the issue. it's been among the main street candidates. mitt romney -- >> huntsman. >> huntsman and romney taking a position that surprise people. it suggested that he was not necessarily there for the long haul. this poses more of a political problem for republicans than democrats and for the president. the president is where the public is now. the republican party still has a faction of people that believe we need the john mccain faction and lindsey graham faction. we must stay in as long as possible and win the war. you have pressure on every american candidate from their party to adopt a position that is nowhere the american public across the spectrum is.

you are going to see contortions from people like romney, huntsman. >> all in. >> the president is going to lose afghanistan. again, as if there was a way to win afghanistan on what we just heard. ♪ [ doug ] i got to figure this out. i want to focus on innovation. but my data is doubling. my servers are maxed out. i need to think about something else when i run. [ male announcer ] with efficient i.t. solutions from dell, doug can shift up to 50% of his company's technology spend from operating costs to innovation. so his company runs better, and so does doug. dell. the power to do more.

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welcome back to sports center. we are going to begin with the thrilling women's world cup final against japan. the u.s. had chances in the first half. it was the 68th minute they got on the board. a big pass. morgan puts a great touch on it. here is the replay. a great finish breaking the tie. u.s. goes up, 1-0. they could have had at least five goals at this point. sloppy defense by the americans. japan taking advantage. there it is. ties the match in the 80th minute. it goes to extra time. the americans find abby wambach.

that's the name we are going talk about for awhile. just shy of the finish, extra time, japan finds a way to equalize on this. this is her fifth world cup. she's their star. ties it up. shoot out. americans haven't missed a goal in the shoot out, so far. stunned. that one is in the stands. third shot for the americans. another save. 2-0 in the shoot-out, japan steals it. the winning shot in the upper left corner. they win, 3-1. the women capturing that. after the match, abby wambach reflecting on the loss. >> it's not what we wanted. we wanted a gold medal and to bring the cup home. seems like the japanese team had

nerves of steel. their keeper made a couple good saves. that's the difference, i think. >> to be fair, if any country deserves a victory, it was japan. we move on to baseball. if you tuned in to watch the red sox and rays, chances are you didn't see the finish. it was a pitchers dual. eight innings each. striking out 16 batters. gave up three hits total. the game scoreless in extra innings. the tenth. a game-saving catch. look at this. the hit from justin looks like it might clear the wall. there's the replay. that's a good look. folks were exhausted. the top of the 16th. a little help. mojo from david ortiz.

red sox win a 1-0 marathon. it lasted 5:44. you could have seen two harry potters in that time. >> did barnacle watch the home game? he's asleep by the seventh. rangers taking on the mariners. this was a tough one. first pop-up to shallow right. he nearly collides with his teammate. look at this. careful, careful. got it, got it. eyes closed. nobody is hurt. he runs. no harm, no foul. go to the seventh. watch this. take a look. he drops his head in shame. that is coming fast at the

helmet. he stays in the game. remarkably he was okay. he's a stud. the rangers win, 3-1. four games up on the angels in the a.l. west. up next here on "morning joe," andrea mitchell joins us. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ stars when you shine

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what's going on in england is startling. to think the extent they went to to break the law to report a story. we need to follow through with the fbi investigation and congressional investigation. >> the investigation is spreading. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm peter alexander sitting in at the table. with us is pat buchanan, jonathan capehart, ed rendell and the most of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> great to see you, peter. >> the scandal that brought down britain's largest paper. one of rupert murdock's people is going to test. brooks was released on bail after being arrested over the

weekend. she was heading the news corp. media division when she stepped down. she turned herself in and is cooperating with police but continues to deny any wrong doing. late last night, london's police commissioner abruptly resigned. the head of police there. paul stevenson announcing he's leaving his post that his unit they are investigating was corrupt. had close ties with news international's now defunct news of the world. pat, i want to invite you in on this. where does this go? it's clear how cozy the relationship was between the politicians and the media. >> right now, it's going up to james murdock. quite frankly, people are going to seize upon this. it's a disaster in england. there was a bribery scandal.

the head of scotland yard is going to resign. i think they are going to try to bring it to the united states. i don't know that anything has been done here. somebody might have hacked into the 9/11 folks. i don't think the wall street journal had anything to do with that. i don't know that any of that went on here and as of right now, it's still in london. a lot of folks want to bring it here. >> what is your opinion on that, ed? >> other than the potential hacking into the 9/11 victims, i'm not sure pat is wrong on this. he may be right. the one thing we don't want it to become, speaking as a democratic progressive. we don't want it to be a witch hunt on murdock. we don't need that. >> right. >> the story is bad enough on its own. >> andrea, let me invite you in on this. we are expecting testimony from

murdock and his son tomorrow. that's going to be a circus-like scene. it's unclear who had connection to all of this. >> i think they all have connections. anyone who has lived or worked there knows. peter you spent a lot of time in london, you know the close connections between the murdock papers and every british politician. these connections there are very, very tight indeed. as to involvement here in the states, there are a couple laws that may have been broken. there's no evidence of that at this stage, obviously. the fbi opened a very, very early investigation. if the murdock empire, which is headquartered in the u.s., that was one of the deals he did, moving to the u.s. officially in order to get the licenses for his tv networks and affiliates around the country. if a u.s. based corporation has

paid bribes, which may have happened, given what we are now hearing from the people in scotland yard, that could be predicate for investigation. it's not been substantiated anywhere else. >> the check with journalism is existing more and more places. this has been policy in europe and london for so long. >> there have been relationships between reporters and cops and all the rest of it. this has gotten down to in london, they are paying big bribes by police. where so and so is coming, give us this information. if you get the police and everybody in that and move up the food chain, it's bad news at the top. another headline the efforts in washington. both houses are rolling out the separate compromises to stave off a u.s. default.

harry reid is now joining with his republican counter part, mitch mcconnell to craft a solution to repeal to both parties. according to reports, here is what it would do. allow the debt ceiling to be raised three times for a total of $2.5 trillion in exchange for 1.5 trillion spending cuts. it would establish the committee to new deficit cuts. the proposal, as you might imagine is getting a lukewarm response from republicans including mark arubio and the former member of the gang of six. here they are this weekend. >> the way the deal is structured now, it gives the president the ability to raise the debt limit. the debt limit is not the problem here. the problem is the debt. the plan, as outlined to me, i don't think is a solution to the debt problem. >> i think the mcconnell plan is more of washington not taking

responsibility. it's a great political plan. it takes the pressure off all the politicians and allows us to pass a debt limit without making the hard choices this country has to make. >> joining us now is former u.s. control general and the comeback america initiative, david walker. i want to ask you, as you hear this, how is this going to come to an end? how will it go from posterring to policy that affects change going forward? >> the congressional leaders said they are going to raise the debt limit. we have to put the house in order. the framework you put up is not credible. there needs to be a forcing mechanism. we need debt to gdp targets. if they are hit, great. if not, they are automatic spending cuts and actions that take place to make sure we start

putting our house in order. >> that sounds like the republican proposal in the house where they have to go to 20% of gdp. they have to cut to that. they cap spending. down the road, the balanced budget amendment. is the republican approach in the house acceptable to you? >> part of the problem, as you know, pat, the balance budget amendment in the house is really not more than a balanced budget amendment. it's talking act capping spending and gdp. the level they are talking about is not realistic given rising health care costs. in fact, wednesday, the comeback america initiative is going to put out a plan. there are two different approaches. one has $3 trillion in cuts. the other $6 trillion in cuts. we need to start talking big numbers. we are in a $61 trillion owe.

>> david, you know, i quoted you all around the place last year because you said rightly so that we have a deal with the deficit. i think you are right. this plan does nothing to really deal with the deficit. but, what about debt. people care about jobs. what are we going to do about creating jobs and keeping america competitive if we don't invest? >> ed, you are right. the first plan will have $3 trillion in spending cuts, but several hundred billion worth of investments in addition to that. we have to recognize the difference between the short term challenge and structural challenge. we need to address both. we need to help jobs today and tomorrow. if we don't get our finances in order, we could have job that is aren't sustainable over time.

>> andrea, do you have a question for him? >> yes, i do. >> hi. >> how the bills come due. there's been a lot of information and misinformation out there from all sides politically. you are the least political person i know. what is it, green eye shades number or date for how it works and how much discretion the president and tim geithner have after august 2nd. >> officials are coming up with the august 2nd date. i have no reason to dispute that. once we hit that rate, bondholders don't have to worry. there's a 14th amendment. the bondholders are okay. what about everybody else? we are spending $2 billion a week on mandatory spending than revenues. tough choices have to be made.

who is going to get paid? who is not going to get paid. who is going to get laid off? who is not going to get laid off? in the end, taxpayers pay the price. first they looked dysfunctional, now incompetent. >> plan a cuts $3 trillion, plan b $6 trillion. how exactly do you do that? it sounds like a lot of cutting in a short period of time. >> let me clarify. framework a and framework b. a is to avoid a crisis. it balances the budget excludeing interest by 2014. b is reactive. if we wait for a crisis to come, you have to do more dramatic things. it balances the entire budget by 2015. they reduce gdb by 2021.

the credit rating of lehman brothers. is the aaa rating of the united states government, is that overrated in your judgment, given the numbers, $62 trillion structural deficit? are we, as a country, overrated as a credit risk? >> first, the agencies tend to be a lag indicator when dealing with debt. it's clearly the case when dealing with the united states. we get a lot of home team bias. if they don't raise the debt ceiling limit and do something credible to be able to demonstrate they are going to do something to deal with the deficits, we don't deserve the aaa credit rating. everything is on the table with regard to the frame work.

social security, health care, defense, other spending, comprehensive tax reform. it's all on the table. we need reforms phased in over time. nip and tuck won't work anymore. >> thank you for your time. >> good to be with you. >> we are going to talk with chuck todd. the usa women's team facing off against the determined japanese squad. it came down to penalty kicks. we will break it down with roger bennett. we will hear from some women after the game. here is bill karins with a look at the forecast. >> we are getting to the middle to peek period of the hurricane season. storms can form at anytime. it's what happened last night. a tropical storm bret forming. usually, it's a big deal. this is moving away from florida and the southeast coast affecting the bahamas and

possibly bermuda. each squiggly line tells us where we think the storm is going to go. the big story is the heat. mid-90s in the mid-atlantic. you want to talk hot, the middle of the country, no one tops you. easily, near record heat all week long. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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this president has been in charge for two and a half years. he has increased federal spending by 28%. washington went along with the prescription for joblessness

with the stimulus package and unemployment is higher. >> maybe the previous administration might have had a little something to do with the bad economy that the president inherited when he came into office? >> a zinger for mark arubio yesterday. joining us now, chief msnbc correspondent for the white house, chuck todd. it's a new monday and it feels like we are where we were friday. let's go to the headlines. >> there's going to be a two-track process. you have to get, as one person put it, you have to let air out of the balloon. give them their vote on the balanced budget amendment. see the vote in the united states senate. it won't have the votes to somehow get it passed on to the state legislature. there are a lot of democrats who

don't like the provisions of this version of the amendment than the ones that joe biden when he was a senator voted for years ago. once you get that out of the way, what's going on behind the scenes is harry reid and mitch mcconnell in the senate that includes the legislative gymnastics thrown in with spending cuts up front. possibly the commissions on social security and tax reform putting together a package that is big enough to get enough house republicans. the feeling is after they realize there's a bunch of stuff they can't get passed, then enough of them will come aboard. that's this week. it's going to be a lot of public, i don't know what you call it. public sort of spectacle on congress, then privately by friday or saturday, they have the deal together. >> okay, chuck, the deal as you describe is going to require

boehner, after he gives his hard core balanced budget amendment getting together with hoyer to pass the center conservative package or whatever you want to call it. he's going to have to stiff his base, is he not because they are not voting for anything? what is the feeling you are getting inside the house republicans on him stiffing cantor's crowd? >> reporter: i think they would make the argument they are not stiffing the crowd. by not doing the deal, number one. by giving them this week to try to sell what they are trying to sell, number two. he's not necessarily stiffing them. he's giving them on opportunity to make their case. they did stop the big deal from happening. a lot of that didn't want the big deal for a couple reasons. number one, they would have had to violate their tax pledge. number two, gives the president

a big victory. just giving the president a victory is something they didn't want to hand him, either. the boehner folks are going to make that argument. it's not a full stiffing. hey, this is, you go, you something have to make legislation with the congress you have, not the congress you want. >> andrea, want in on the conversation? >> yeah. there's a question i have not seen and maybe you have private conversations. what about the president's threat he would not sign a short term deal or anything that was not balanced with a tax component? mitch mcconnell-harry reid plan b, fallback plan doesn't have a tax come ponette, as far as i know. >> it's my understanding it doesn't. perhaps the commission that harry reid is going to go on and mcconnell will fulfill it.

you are going to argue it's short term because it's short term unless it's not, the president asks for more and they disapprove. number two, it's not going to have the tax component unless something comes out of the congressional commission. that's what this is. they don't want to use the "c" word. it's only members of congress. it's an up or down vote. it doesn't matter what comes out of it. it's going to go down, not pass. >> chuck -- >> i can make that argument. >> i think your analysis is right. i think it's a relatively easy package to vote for for republicans because of no revenues. it's tougher for democrats because it doesn't achieve anything. it only cuts. so, i think you are right. i think this is not that much of a reach for boehner to ask his

people to vote for. he runs with the flag and declared victory. >> ultimately, you are going to need -- the question is, it goes back to pat's first question. how many votes is boehner comfortable losing? it sounds to me, up to 75. they may lose all 75. >> how much confidence is there that whatever deal is devised, does boehner have the power to get the votes needed to pass it and pass it in time for the debt ceiling to be raised so the faith and credit of the united states doesn't go down the toilet. >> i go back to the ordering of it. i think it's important for some of these members to see the process. see they can't get this passed. see the balanced budget amendment with the opponent to raise taxes can get done.

you are faced with either default and the political argument made with mcconnell this week. you do something as minimal as you have to do to do this. boehner is going to make that argument. at that point, cantor. -- open warfare between those two. >> before you say good-bye, who is with you on daily rundown at 9:00? >> the most powerful man in negotiations. you know, the guy, it's his pledge. one could argue that prevented any sort of deal from happening. >> see you at 9:00 eastern. andrea, thanks to you as well. who are your guests? >> tom price, the republican

chair. diane finestein and burns. >> thanks chuck. thanks to you. mitt romney may be the 2012 front-runner. can he convince the establishment he's the man to beat barack obama? that discussion is coming up next. keep it here on "morning joe."

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good monday morning. welcome back to "morning joe." a new round of violence in afghanistan where the taliban killed a key adviser amid karzai this weekend. it comes one week after karzai's half brother was killed by a member of his security team. the taliban claiming responsibility for that assassination as well. we are joining a round table and looked ahead to the future for that region and our efforts there. here they are.

>> david ignatius, what a contrast. bush's presidency was defined by the wars we were fighting. barack obama is by and large giving a blank check by the american people, get it done. we don't want to talk about it. >> the country is war weary. we know that. obama is responding to that. obama has been tough on the main fight against al qaeda, killing osama bin laden was the main sign of that. the drone attacks, not only in pakistan, but other countries. >> talk about the intensity of that, david. for americans that don't understand, talk about how intense obama's drone wars have been against al qaeda. >> at the peak of drone activity, we were operating three to four times as many missions as had been the case

during the bush administration. we were stepped up. the criteria for drone attacks was loose. they were very, very aggressive targeting actions. just to say one more word about afghanistan, take the point that was made about the centralized afghanistan being a possibility. god didn't intend that country to be centralized. the interesting thing about the programs that we are doing now, general petraeus is trying to keep and obama will hang on to for as long as he's got. they are locally focused. they are local police raised from the tribes. i saw an incredible rule program. there are no judges in a lot of afghanistan to resolve disputes. we are putting judges in. if people knew about them, they would say that's a good idea. i hope those will end with the general public disgust weariness

for the war. >> as ugly as it seems now, he said the best of times for afghanistan. this is the best afghanistan's had since the late 1970s. it sounds horrific to us. >> that's an accurate assessment. the programs are finally working. probably, maybe a little too late in the day. five years ago would have been better in london. david, i want to ask you about ryan crocker's job, ambassador to afghanistan and the degree of difficulty in that job as he is about to take over dealing with the fundamentally, deeply flawed government and deeply, deeply flawed karzai. >> the degree of difficulty, 9.5 or whatever it might be, crocker, i have known since the early '80s. he's superb. his job, i think, is to keep

afghanistan on track toward some kind of regional framework where afghanistan can work with india, pakistan and iran, which we mentioned earlier. a frame work for stability that will continue after karzai. he'll be gone after 2014. it sounds like mission impossible. if any american diplomat can do it, it's crocker. this is switching from military to diplomatic game number. >> 2014, what is afghanistan going to look like ? >> it's going to be a loose region that is quiet. some are not going to be quiet. we will still be there, however. we are not leaving completely. there are going to be special forces, special operation forces, training teams.

people to support them. the thrust of what we are doing there is not going to be to create an army that's going to arm itself and defend afghanistan. it's going to be to conduct the raids and strikes to develop the kind of intelligence we need to do the predator strikes we are going to do. david brought up an interesting point about pilotless drones doing strikes. this president conducted more strikes like that the first month in office than the previous administration the entire time they were there. this president thinks the way to get to the bad guy is decimate them when he gets to them. we need intelligence to do so. the general running afghanistan for the united states is now the director of the central intelligence agency. it is all about intelligence. >> wes, you have obviously been

there. you understand afghanistan a lot better than us sitting around this table. what happens when american troops leave or are we going to have a presence of 30,000 -- is it going to be like germany or south korea, 20,000 to 30,000 to 40,000 troops there? >> we'll have a sustained presence. we will see 30,000 troops that redeploy. they are combat service support. mechanics, working on aircraft. the combat soldiers are going to be on the ground. what i think is going to happen is create the space to bring in the regional powers like india. india has five consulates in afghanistan. two are on the border of afghanistan and pakistan, which leads to a lot of uncertainty on the pakistan side of the border.

>> how do we bring india in? how do we bring pakistan in? again, the united states and dr. brzezinski last week when he was here talked about all of our rivals, not enemies, but rivals are sitting there smiling, watching the united states power get drained in afghanistan. they are just standing by. >> it's absolutely right. when you think about the costs, you know, we are talking $120 billion. that's combat operations alone. that's not aid. not aid going to other countries. it does not include training. we are talking billions of dollars spent on this operation that we are seeing marginal improvements. >> $120 billion on combat alone per year. i'm sorry, i'm going to say it again, while our infrastructure

is crumbling, while we fall behind k-12 in the schools and having to fire teachers, i'm sorry you can't explain this to americans in town hall meetings from california to maine down to south florida. they don't understand. >> it goes back to a great line i heart. it might be doable. but it's not sellable. how do you justify that to the american people. it's not just the cost of the war, but the warriors now coming home. we have 100,000 chronically homeless. 9.2% unemployment. 17% unemployment in iraq and afghanistan veterans when they come home. more soldiers died from suicide than combat. it's not the first month it's happened. what exactly is the side of a footprint we need in this

operation. >> chime in if you could in terms of being unemployed. it will have ramifications for generations. >> unemployment is 38%. the irony is people most qualified to do whatever jobs in the civilian life are people in the military. young people get responsibility at a very, very early age. yet, we don't tap into it. companies are starting to do that. it's only because they are starting to learn what capabilities people have when they are in service. one other thing about service that's striking, we are talking about selling wars to the united states for the population during periods when we are having a general election, how difficult it is to do. the other wars we have fought that have been unpopular and the public had a violent reaction to it or a war like vietnam.

right now, we have two and a half popular wars goupg on, no riots in the street. if we had a draft right now, people would be swarming all over the place. >> more "morning joe," when we come back.

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and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. welcome back to "morning joe." according to the first major spending report of the 2012 campaign season, mitt romney showered $750,000 in new hampshire. meanwhile, tim pawlenty doled out $200,000 in iowa. despite the spending, it hasn't made much of a dent in the

polls. romney remains the front-runner. joe, mika and willie's discussion on whether any of the candidates can top mitt romney. >> people looked at ronald reagan in 1980 as a dunce. but, that so-called amiable dunce ran for eight years. he was across america, delivered speeches for general electric for years. he spent decades trying to form late a strategy. there is no comparison between ronald reagan and michele bachmann. she raised $14 million, not because of legislative accomplishments. she raised $14 million because she said minnesotans should be armed and dangerous to oppose climate change legislation. because she called the president

of the united states a thug. you are laughing pat buchanan. it's a line for right wingers, but that's not going to win the election in the fall. >> i know that, joe. i don't deny everything you say. what i'm talking about, what you see in iowa and how fast things can move, it is not beyond the realm of possibility she could come out of there, run a second in new hampshire, knock out of romney in south carolina where the mormons are not that strong down there then where are we. >> one of the most interesting aspects of the bachmann candidacy has to be the potential that it sets up with sarah palin. >> oh, yeah. stop it. >> just stop it. >> stop what? >> it's silly. >> what are you talking about?

>> it's silly. do i need to say -- >> michele bachmann put the visual out of they want the mud wrestling comment. i don't think there's room enough in the race for the two of them. i don't. i don't think palin is going to run, but it's great television. >> it would be like watching -- >> tv anchors fight. >> do we really want to go there? >> i don't. what about huntsman? >> what about huntsman? >> where is he? is he running still? >> he won the manhattan primary at the gathering. usually, it's not that helpful in the south carolina primary. he just has no compelling, exciting message. with due respect, no compelling, exciting personality. it looks like the folks that put the clips of him on the air picked the most boring things.

after all the media hype, that's all it was, excuse me, after the media hype, it didn't work. it's passed away. >> we go from jon huntsman to tim pawlenty, a very nice guy, successful minnesota governor. yet the iowa poll that came out suggests tim pawlenty is in big trouble. >> he can't great through. he's on the sunday shows, making speeches at cfr, but he hovers around the 9% margin. if he doesn't make a move quickly, he better watch it. >> a cautionary note on pawlenty. he's been in iowa working for i don't know how long. he's got to be organized for the iowa straw polls in august. i think he's got to outperform whatever present number he has. michele bachmann has been in there three weeks. you have to organize the state

and the community. he's probably been in all 99 counties. he might have a surprise showing in the iowa aim straw poll. unless he does, he's in, what was it, deep doo-doo. >> one way to look at it. >> do we arrive at a point where republican candidates -- >> that's the big question. to what degree is this base going to go with anybody but barack? i think romney will prove that out. the race is so unsettled at this point. there are so many variables. we haven't talked about pacts. we look at pawlenty and huntsman. romney is not that much better. >> people will drag chris

christie or jeb bush by the scruff of their neck and this vacuum will not agree. >> it doesn't happen to chris christie. >> as of now, it is romney or the right. i tell you, rick perry, did you see him? he's not even in the race, yet. i don't know. i don't know that he's been to iowa. people are looking for something there. i think if romney -- i think people are waiting. he's got a good appeal out there. he's got 10% or 12% and he's not even in. i think that -- you know, i think it's romney or someone on the right. >> nobody else is coming in? there is no white knight? >> with all due respect, jeb is a good governor. chris christie is not going to get in. >> jeb is vanilla?

>> what cereal is chris christie? >> almond nut crunch, maybe. >> pat buchanan, mike barn cal, alex wag near, thank you very much. more "morning joe" in a moment. be kind to your eyes with transitions lenses. transitions adapt to changing light so you see your whole day comfortably and conveniently while protecting your eyes from the sun. ask your eyecare professional which transitions lenses are right for you. ask your eyecare professional for your transitions certificate of authenticity for your chance to win instant monthly prizes or our $20,000 grand prize!

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and the goalkeeper saves it! oh! it's over. it's all going home for the usa in the shootup. and what a moment this is. usa surely has to score this one. and they don't! none out of three for the usa. they've never missed one before in a world cup shoot-out. >> still tough to watch on a monomorning. if you missed it over the weekend, of course, the women's world cup final, defeated by japan. in fairness, if any country that needed a victory like this, it

was the japanese. but for the americans who watched the women's soccer team, generally once every two or four years, this was really a heartbreak. joining using right now, espn soccer analyst, roger bennett. roger, starting before halftime, the americans easily should have had five, six goals by at that point, shouldn't they? >> absolutely. the bandwagon rolled into frankfurt. we all thought they were going to dispel the legacy of the sports team and add their name to the pantheon of great american winners. they played against japan. the coach called them the short little ladies and they of barcelona, they passed beautifully. first half, this is abby wambach thundering the ball. five or six goals after halftime, they should have been. it was 0-0 until the 69th minute. alex morgan, merks's sweamerica

sweetheart. and in the 80th minute, relentless japan. they spring wone back. slapstick defending. the u.s. dig deep. they're a gutsy team. here is abby wambach, 5'11", she's a veritable godzilla against the tiny japanese. >> godzilla! >> unnecessary. >> if you're abby wambach, are you selling excedrin by tuesday morning? >> abby got a headache this big. >> if you're abby wambach's agent, you're working the phones now. >> more slapstick defending. we're back to penalties. penalties giveth against brazil, penalties take away. last week they couldn't miss, this week they couldn't hit the side of a barn. they crumbled under the pressure of the mission to bring back glory. it was really a psychological test. it was ugly to watch. it would have been easier on the

eye perhaps to watch these women play russian roulette. but as you say, the japanese team brought joy to a distressed nation. that obscures the fact that they played beautiful football. america were athletic, they were gutsy, they were determined. but japan, mazel tov, that's how you say congratulations in japanese. >> they dropped the aggressiveness. they weren't moving down the field the way they did. >> america has always had a brand of soccer that's based on threat schism. this japanese team met them stride for stride, towards the end, they were digging deeper. i think they just ran out of energy. and the penalties, it's such a psychological test. but these are professional soccer players that couldn't hit -- >> didn't they program them and see what they had done and see -- >> they had seen them, but these are professionals, some of the greatest professionals in world soccer, they've all missed. the penalty kick is a

psychological crucible that's separated from the rest of the game. an individual matchup. the rest of the game is a team game. these women can come back with their heads held high. they're on the front page of every national newspaper. there were more tweets per second than any other american game. >> that was a stunning report. a stunning report. >> a penalty kick, a terrible way for sports to have great television. roger, thank you. [ female announcer ] the healing power of touch can be even more powerful, with precise pain relieving cream. it blocks pain signals fast for relief precisely where you need it most. precise. only from the makers of tylenol.

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the president made clear, he wants the largest deal possible. he wants to do the most we can to reduce the deficit. that would be the right thing to do for the american people. he made it clear, he's willing to go into areas that he's not in the past been comfortable going into, and others -- >> but he used that -- >> good morning. it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. as you take a live look at new york city, welcome back to "morning joe." i'm peter alexander, sitting in along with mike barnicle in boston. and back with us at the table are pat buchanan, jonathan capehart, ed rendell, and harold ford jr.. >> good morning. >> we begin now with the debt crisis. it is a new week and that means there are new efforts in washington to try to make a deal on the deficit. both houses of congress are now rolling out separate compromise plans in a bid to stave off the u.s. default. senate majority leader harry reid is joining with his

republican counterpart, minority leader mitch mcconnell to craft a solution designed to appeal to both partieis s. proposal would do the following. it wld allow the debt ceiling to be raised three times over the next year, for a total of $2.5 trillion. in exchange, some $1.5 trillion in spending cuts would be enacted. the plan would also establish a congressional committee to identify new deficit cuts. but the proposal already, as you might imagine, getting a lukewarm response from some of mcconnell's fellow republicans. among them, the freshman florida senator, marco rubio, as well as the former member of the gang of six, tom coburn. take a listen. >> the way the deal's currently structured right now, it gives the president the ability to raise the debt limit. the debt limit's not really the problem here. the problem is the debt. i don't believe this plan, as it's been outlined to me, is a credible solution to our debt problem. >> i think the mcconnell plan is more of washington not taking responsibility for -- it's a

great political plan. it takes the pressure off all the politicians, but allows us to pass a debt limit without making the hard choices that this country has to make. >> pat, i want to pass the first question to you. which is, so what do we make of this? for a lot of americans, it feels like we've made no progress in the course of these weeks. but where do we go from here? >> i think this is senator mcconnell lateraling the ball to barack obama in the end zone and saying, let us out of here. you make all the decisions on the budget cuts and we get the right to vote them up or vote them down. so i think this is basically an abdication by the republicans in the senate saying, we don't want this the fight. we want to retreat on this particular front and fight on another front. >> right, right. retreat on this particular front, but remember, as peter just reported, there would be three bites at the apple to raise the debt ceiling for a total of $2.5 trillion. and every time democrats would have to go to vote on this would give the republicans a club over democrats in the presidential

election year with house members running for re-election, with people in the senate, claire mccaskill, do you think she wants to do this three times next year? i don't think so. >> i think there's a real positive to be looked at here. last week, a week and a half ago, pat and i were discuss ein in a spirited way whether or not this would even pass. for now, it looks like we're not going to default on our debt. for us, as americans, to voluntarily default, would be a silly thing. i'm encouraged by that. and as a former governor, i think you, governor rendell, you would see as well as any, you at least see a path to an answer here that encourages people. >> but it's also very disappointing. because we had an opportunity to really do something structurally with this country's deficit. and it took people of goodwill on both sides, compromising, you know, the great rolling stones song, "you can't always get what you want," we could have done something really good for the

country and we're kicking the can down the road. yes, we're avoiding default, but god knows when we're going to get this done. >> let me go to mike in boston. there's a headline that reads, "beyond the beltway, pessimism, frustration, and even yawns on budget talks." can we back up a step and put this in the simplest language. why does this matter when it feels so inside the beltway right now? >> because your average american, no matter where he or she works, i don't care where you work, a dry cleaner's, a public school, a police station, a downtown office, no one could work in an environment like the house and the senate. business would come to a standstill. it just couldn't happen. people know these people are ridiculous. you just heard marco rubio, freshman senator from florida say, the problem here is the debt. guess what. the problem here is nobody's working. there's about 14 to 15% real unemployment in this country. take a walk around the block,

marco. >> well, let me follow up on that. the problem here is a tremendous conflict between the two parties and their fundamental philosophy of where this country ought to go. now, the house republicans are one side of this. they're going to come out for, what, cut, cap, and balance. in other words, cut spending all the way to 20% of gdp. get rid of half the deficit. and then cap the spending and then pass a balanced budget amendment. that's going to be immensely popular with their constituency. probably popular in the country, the balanced budget antidepressant. but it's going nowhere. but it does tell you, look, these guys are willing to go to the wall and go down to defeat for what they believe in. the one reason republicans can't get anything to the house, they can't raise the debt ceiling. >> but what the republicans actually believe in is no tax increases. they believe in slashing government spending and slashing the entitlement programs. they should just state that. but to say they want to balance the budget, it shouldn't take an

amendment to the constitution to force people in the congress to do their jobs. i never voted for a budget that wasn't balanced. >> but you can't balance this budget. it's 10% of gdp. >> but you cannot lower our debt for the long-term unless you're willing to look at revenue increases as well. you know as well as i do that for every $4 spent, $3 on spending cuts, less than $1 for revenue increases. that is a fair deal. any group of republicans in the history of this congress would have embraced this deal. >> go ahead. >> and pat, republicans should have raised the victory flag, taken the deal harold said. it was 3 to 1, spending cuts to revenue increases, 81 to 17%. but most importantly, it's good for the country. >> ed, george h.w. bush took the deal. remember read my lips, no new taxes. all right, i'll raise them and take a deal with you guys. one term, he was gone. republicans sign on to tax increases now after they've sworn to the people in 2009 --

>> but these aren't tax increases, pat. these are things the american people support. >> tell it to those guys! >> 38% of our american corporations pay no taxes. close the loophole. >> then you're telling me these guys are standing up against a popular position for their principles and that's what they were sent to washington to do. >> no, they were sent to washington to govern. >> that's what president obama was elected to do and they're going to lateral him the football. >> what were republicans in congress elected to do? to be antagonistic? no, they were elected to govern. republicans should not hide behind the notion to lower the taxes. that's what this debate has boiled down to. that's -- >> why don't you sign -- >> -- republicans are in today. >> why don't the democrats agree to the balanced budget amendment, which is part of the republican package? >> it's not -- >> jonathan, go ahead? >> because the balanced budget amendment is bad policy.

congress should do its job and pass budgets where the nation can live within its means. but we should remember something, that we're not out of the woods yet. governor, you said, you know, we're going to avoid default. we don't know that yet. that is not guaranteed. we still have a long way to go. we've got two weeks before we hit the ceiling and the ratings agencies are waiting to see, giving us, basically, until the 22nd, this friday, or monday, the 24th, to get our act together. and marco rubio, senator rubio said something i want the american people to understand, because he got it wrong. if you do not raise the debt ceiling, with it's as if you went out and bought a car and then decided not to make the payments. this is not giving the united states a blank check. it's not giving the united states more credit. the bills have already been incurred. the united states must pay those bills. and if the debt ceiling is not raised, a world of hurt will be unleashed on the economy and the american people. >> we're not the only ones with problems with our bills. the former white house national economic council director larry

summers is urging members of the g-20 to become more vocal in pressuring european nations to do what's best for their km economies as well. the former treasury secretary says if europe does not get the crisis under control soon, those g-20 nations should become more aggressive. summers' comments come ahead of a meeting of eurozone leaders that's scheduled for brussels later this week. the group is expected to discuss, among other things, a second financial rescue package for greece. greece is seeking another european bailout package that would keep the nation financed for the next three years through 2014, at least until it can return to financial markets and pay its own bills, fund itself. meanwhile, secretary of state hillary clinton made a stop in athens, that was today, voicing strong support for greece as the country struggles to overcome its own financial issues. clinton saying, quote, americans know these are difficult days and, again, we stand with you as friends and allies. mike, the way that europe relates to us, all of a sudden

it's becoming all too familiar. how does this relate to our experience here? >> well, you know, peter, i sort of get the global implications of the worldwide economy. i think everyone does. we live in a worldwide economy. i mean, our competition is no longer down the block, it's china and india and places like that. but i really think, just listening to the discussion this morning, just listening to the different points of view. you expand those different points of view, put them in an entirely polarized, poisonous, toxic atmosphere called congress, and i think our largest problem is governing. i mean, we can't govern ourselves. is this country ungovernable today? that's a huge, huge question in my mind, i think in the minds of a lot of younger people, wondering, where are we going as a nation? these people, they go to washington and behave like absolute clowns. that's a huge burden. >> mike's point is spot-on, even pat is saying, i think we have a very different philosophy on

governing. when obama was elected, he made some promises. after he was elected, he said he would close guantanamo bay. he didn't after he saw in information. indicated he would try this terrorist here in new york, he decided not to when the evidence suggested strongly not to. after the election, said they would not extend the bush tax cuts. they did it in relation to a bigger deal, the s.t.a.r.t. treaty and other matters. i think it's important for those elected to be willing to transcend and be bigger than the moment. peter asked the most important question, beyond the beltway, frustration and bewilderment for voters, the real issue is not the debt ceiling, they want to see it raised, they wonder when is congress going to focus on creating jobs. make the cuts and get on dealing with the issues most prominent and foremost in voters' minds. >> let's take the state of minnesota, where you have to balance the budget. governor mark dayton, they shut down the government. and republicans said it's a

spending problem, not a taxing problem. mark dayton came back, he did not raise taxes, and he took the republican deal. in illinois, they went the other way. this battle is going along all across america, and quite frankly, in greece. greece is going to default. greece is going to default one of these days. that country is insolvent. you know, bond holders and the banks are not going to be held back and they're holding those poor people's head under water. >> mike? >> pat, you know, what's interesting is if you walk around, you know, if you go do your grocery shopping on weekends and put gas in your car and you listen to what's out there, you listen to people, this is all pretty simple. they're making it much more difficult and much more uncomprehensible in washington than it needs to be. people want to know about our elected officials in the house and the senate, hey, why don't you do something for the country before you do something for your own political party. do something for the country. >> well, they think -- let me say this, about the conservative

republicans. they believe that if they don't hold the line and they don't stop these taxes from going up, their country is headed down the same road as all these countries in europe. and they're determined to do it now. that's why they're taking a terrible beating. >> could they be wrong, pat? >> they could be wrong and you guys could be wrong too. >> but that's not the issue. the issue is you've got a divided government. you've got to make a divided government work. when i was governor, i had a whole slew of social programs i wanted to enact. i compromised every one of them to get them passed. that's what we've got to do next. >> coming up next, joe, mika, and willie lead a special roundtable on 2012. why some argue the current field of republicans could still force governor kris christie into the picture. and the impact of mitt romney's hard-hitting unemployment ads against president obama. and the secret weapon that's keeping michele bachmann on message and surging in the polls. first, though, bill karins with another check of the forecast. bill? >> thanks, peter. a busy monday morning for me,

i've got a heat wave, a tropical storm, and severe weather to deal with later this afternoon. let's start with these thunderstorms. we're watching them sweeping down through syracuse, new york, just cleared lake ontario. syracuse is getting hit now and next will be the albany to binghamton area. eventually, these storms will work down to boston, providence, new york city, maybe even philadelphia late tonight. just be prepared. some of these storms are going to have small hail. i think the gusty winds is the biggest threat. it will be hot until the storms arrive. you'll probably actually appreciate it when the rain comes. cool things off. middle of the country, not so lucky. incredible heat wave. what a summer it's been already. here's just one example. st. louis, near 100 if not above 100 right into next weekend. you're under excessive heat warnings. not only is it hot, but it's really humid throughout the midwest too. like really gross humidity. so that's the way the forecast looks out there. not changing anytime soon, everyone. this hot summer is here to stay. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] things seem better with travelocity's best price guarantee.

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i don't think we just have a crisis in washington of leadership, i think it's across all the sectors. i think we see it in sports, where we let sometimes these thugs go out on the field and play on sunday, because they can score a touchdown. we see it in our pop culture. there is a crisis of leadership in america and we are witnessing it now in politics. >> all right -- >> david faber, unimpressed. welcome back to "morning joe." that was ohio governor john

kasich talking about a crisis of leadership on "meet the press" yesterday. there may be new doubts about the current crop of potential white house leaders. so making front page news in "usa today," the top gop fund-raisers who funded john mccain's presidential run are reluctant to write checks for the current field of presidential candidates. joe, mika and willie all back tomorrow. joe and mika, at least. they sat down with pat buchanan and "the huffington post's" alex wagner to dissect the 2012 republican field. here's that conversation. >> chris christie, you know kris christie better than anybody else. you've hugged him longer than anybody on the set. >> very huggable. >> mika, knowing chris krchrist the way you do, do you think there's any way he gets dragged into this republican race? >> yes, i do, and i hope it doesn't happen. >> you think it does, you think it doesn't happen? when he's hugging you, is he whispering in your ear saying,

if they just ask me nice? >> no, they're begging him. they're already begging him. and we could have a turning point in history where things are really bads and he is really put on the spot and kind of forced. and i hope that doesn't happen for his sake. >> i will tell you -- >> and for his family's sake. >> you look at barack obama's weaknesses, alex, and even his own base will say, his weaknesses, he's a professor. as pat buchanan said four years ago, this guy is all faculty lounge. he's a professor, he's not -- he doesn't seem to be decisive at times. he's not for gay marriage, but he speaks out for gay marriage. >> he's evaluating it. >> he's evaluating it. we could go down the list. you put him on a debate stage, and he's not good at debates. wasn't with hillary, wasn't with mccain. >> he's factually correct, but he doesn't win. >> then you have chris christie next to him, shooting the pistols. whoo! you talk about a re-play of 1980. >> fair enough.

but, look, chris christie's brand is built on this kind of, you know, speaking truth to power, blunt, you know -- and he has said, i'm not prepared, i'm not ready, i'm not doing it. and i do think he takes that seriously, he takes what he says seriously about not running. and to do a 180 on that i think undermines the dna of his brand. >> so who's more ready, chris christie right now or candidate barack obama, if you just look at resumes? >> you mean back in 2007? >> yes. >> it's not even a close call. >> compared to 2007, i think you could -- he's much more of a legislative -- >> well, that's what they're going to say to him. >> you could go through the list that joe just went through and you could put chris christie or anybody else on a debate stage with president obama, you can do the faculty lounge thing and all of that is legitimate. at the end of the day, barack obama can whip that card out of his deck. i killed osama bin laden. >> yes, well, there is that. absolutely. >> a huge decisive card.

>> that is a huge decisive card. i remember back in 1992 -- >> i hope it's not. >> -- i was sure bill clinton was going to beat george h.w. bush and then bush took out the "i was there when the berlin wall fell," and, wham! that's it, he got re-elected. i see people in america still remember. jobs, jobs, jobs, mike. >> romney, romney, romney. that's romney's issue. >> by the way, let's speak about mitt romney. take a look at this ad from mitt romney and they're putting up these amazing web ads. and this ad, of course, playing off of some of the obama people, saying the unemployment rate doesn't matter. take a listen. >> unernt is is probably the one

thing. >> am i going to have my job next week? is my company going to be here? >> things have to change. they have to change. >> wow. you know, that's something. >> yeah. >> pat buchanan, mitt romney is really focusing on jobs. at the end of the day, that will be what this election is all about, huh? >> that's the general election strategy. that's exactly right, joe. and i think romney's doing that very well. he's running a general election strategy. all i'm saying is, when you get out to iowa and some of those places in iowa and south carolina, you've got to have some other cards besides a long string of your strongest suit. and you ought to -- >> mike huckabee won iowa in 2008. >> huckabee won iowa and also did very well in the south and he wiped mitt romney out and romney dropped out of that race because he was very weak down there. and you had two candidates against romney, you had mccain.

you get one candidate who's emerged, and you saw her up in the debate. now, maybe that was a limited debate up there with seven people, she didn't speak too long, but she was more than presentable, joe, that's where she was launched there. i'm not saying she's going to be the nominee, but i'm saying folks better start taking her seriously. >> she could create havoc. >> and she's shifted the magnetic polls of this debate far right. i liken pawlenty's recent authentic behavior as to someone putting in a pair of wax fangs at halloween. li like, i'm vicious. tim pawlenty, not really a fanged wolf. he's got to do it. he's beginning on the defensive with bachmann, questioning her legislative record, you know, he's going after -- saying he was tough when he was governor of minnesota, talking about taking the tough line on all of this financial and fiscal, getting the house in order. but at the end of the day, to

what degree does her presence in the race actually undermine the legitimacy of the candidacies of these other guys? >> at the end of the day, we're looking at mitt romney, aren't we? >> well, we are looking at -- you just alluded to it. we're looking at the people who compromise the top of the republican party sitting in the room saying, do we want to win? >> right. >> do we want to win. >> all right -- >> well, when republicans ask that question, they answer, nah! >> final word, pat buchanan? >> richard nixon once told me, when the republican establishment is getting together to stop "x," put your money on "x." and i think that's -- i don't think the establishment has that much power or influence at all. i think these things are won in the primaries. >> pat buchanan, mike barnicle, alex wagner, thanks very much. more "morning joe" in just a moment. i have astigmatism.

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is town controversy it continues to spread.

new fallout from the "news of the world" scandal. the lawyer for ceo rebekah brooks says his client is not guilty of any criminal offenses. his comments come as brooks was released on bail that took place this weekend. the bbc is now also reporting that the trusted rupert murdoch exec will testify in front of a parliamentary committee examining the case. interesting, given a lot of members of parliament are suspected of being involved in this too. nbc news's stephanie gosk now breaks things down from london. >> reporter: london's top cop resigned under intense pressure after it emerged that scotland yard hired a former "news of the world" editor as a media consultant in 2009. the former editor, neil wallace, was arrested for his connections with the phone hacking scandal last week. in stepping down, stevenson denies any wrongdoing. >> i have heard suggestions that

we must have suspected the alleged involvement of mr. wallace in phone hacking. let me say unequivocally that i did not and have no reason to do so. >> stephenson says he quit because he's become a distraction for scotland yard, which has been criticized for its handling of the phone hacking investigation. among the accusations, their failure to notify victims, including actor hugh grant, who is now suing the department. meanwhile, rebekah brooks, the former head of murdoch's british newspaper arm, was the latest person to be arrested. her spokesman says she was asked to come in for questioning on sunday, but did not know she would be arrested. brooks resigned from her executive position on at news corp on friday, the same day les hinton, her predecessor, now publisher of "the wall street journal," resigned. both deny any knowledge of wrongdoing at "news of the world." the resignations and brooks' arrest, some say, could open up further criticism of rupert

murdoch's son, james, the head of news corp's european and asian operations. >> he may well then find his position in the company vulnerable. that doesn't mean that rupert murdoch himself is vulnerable. >> reporter: on tuesday, rupert and james murdoch will publicly answer questions from members of parliament. the deputy prime minister told the bbc exactly what the government wants to hear from the head of news corp. >> i think he needs to come absolutely clean about what he knew, about what his senior executives knew. >> reporter: news corp published two full-page advertisements in the british press over the weekend. one, an apology directly from murdoch. the second, a list of what news corp will do to make it right and an admission. "apologizing for our mistakes and fixing them are only first steps," the statement reads. "it may take some time for us to rebuild trust." >> that was stephanie gorvsk reporting. we want to get a check on

business before the bell i know back's melissa frances, who is live at the new york stock exchange today. melissa, let's get a sense of how news corp has been asked by this already. the stock slump continues despite last week's share buyback. so what does this mean for american holdings, for u.s. holdings? >> yeah, we're watching the stock get hammered again this morning. it was hammered over the weekend on all of this breaking news. and rupert murdoch issued a $5 billion stock buyback last week. this is something he hates. he absolutely hates parting with money, but he had no choice. and shareholders really liked the buyback. he's got more than $11 billion in cash on hand at the company. they generate about $2.5 billion in free cash flow. he's got it to spend. this is one way to stop shareholders from fleeing from the stock. and at the same time, only 25% of the company's revenue comes from newspapers. there's a ton of value there. they generate so much money, as we just discussed, so there's a lot of investors wondering, where is the bottom and how do they stop the bleeding?

there's certainly a lot of value in there somewhere. maybe they break up the company, only time will tell. >> and on the debt ceiling, we're waiting to see what the market's reaction is to a lack of progress. what happens if no deal is reached? >> everybody i talk to down here on the floor, everybody i have on my show on cnbc says, don't worry, they'll come out and have a deal at the last minute. who could forget that t.a.r.p. vote that didn't happen at the last minute, we watched the market plunge about 700 points. timothy geithner was on with steve liesman and steve liesman asked him, what happens if there's no deal? he says, there'll be a deal. he asked, what's the backup plan? he said, the backup plan is to raise the debt ceiling. so i guess this game of chicken continues down here. >> chicken's a dangerous game. melissa, we thank you. coming up next, can the war effort survive a post-petraeus afghanistan? joe and mika are back, exploring with david ignatius and colonel jack jacobs next. live in studio again tomorrow morning.

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going to be another scorcher outside today across much of the country. welcome back to "morning joe." general david petraeus ending his tenure as commander of american and coalition forces in afghanistan. that happens today. handing over that responsibility to general johnson allen. petraeus will begin his new job as cia director this fall, secedingly on panetta, who takes over at the pentagon as defense secretary. what will those personnel shifts mean for the war strategy? joe and mika bringing back their afghanistan panel to have that conversation. >> john heilemann, what's

fascinating is you hear the statistics from jack jacobs and also from david ignatius about the drone attacks. and this brings you back to the fact that this president has doubled down on that strategy, on the bush/cheney strategy on drone attacks. gitmo's still open. we could go down the laundry list. politically, though the president pays no surprise for continuing many of the bush/cheney policies from his own base, right? >> well, there are people, obviously, on the left who complain about those things, and you can find those people in the blogasphere. there are people who howl about them on occasion. but the truth is the, the president remains extraordinarily popular among not necessarily left-wing bloggers, but actual liberals out in the country. still has an approval rating over 85, 88%. there's never been a moment in his presidency where there's been any real threat of a primary challenge, which has been kind of amazing. there's always at least a threat of a primary challenge.

he's not had that at all. i think that just owes to, it's one of the results of the extraordinary polarization in our politics now. the left, however easy they are about certain things with obama, they hate the republicans so much that they give him a free pass. >> but what the president said in 2007 and 2008 from now, you followed him in 2007 and '8. it is stunning. he has adopted -- in large part -- dick cheney's approach to war. >> there's no question that barack obama -- >> does anybody disagree with that? you disagree with that? >> i don't think that president obama ran on the platform that he was going to end all wars. he was actually talking about afghanistan being the war that we needed to pay more attention to. because the fact is, when president obama runs for re-election next year, he is going to have double the amount of troops in afghanistan that he did when he first entered

office. i don't think he ran necessarily on taking troops out of afghanistan. i think what people are still curious and still want to know about is, what is the long-term strategy? so while we can increase the number of troops and the fact is, we've had almost double the amount of troops die under the obama administration than we have under the bush administration. it's because president obama has put more resources in. so the question is, what's the strategy? >> but it is the case, though, one of the things obama did so artfully in 2007/2008 when he was running, which was to create himself into this kind of test, right, where he could say things like the famous formulation, i don't oppose all wars, i oppose dumb wars. that allowed him to be the anti-war candidate, but also to say, i'm also perfectly ready -- >> and he was the anti-war candidate and that's why he beat hillary. >> but then ran exactly on what wes said in the general election, i'm willing to be just as tough as you are in afghanistan. but we have to do smart wars, not all wars. so he was a guy who managed to

leave a lot of people coming out of there, people at the end of 2008 who thought he was a centrist and people who thought he was a progressive. he did that with extraordinary care and calculation and it gave him a lot of freedom of movement moving forward. and the fact, as i say, that the base hates republicans so much. as you said, he gets a free pass on continuing a lot of specific policies that the left finds totally abhorrent. >> but here's his ultimate political dilemma. the combination of war weariness that is thick in this land and uncertainty, domestically, about where we're headed as a nation with regard to the schools our kids go to, the bridges that we drive over, the jobs that we've lost, the jobs that might never come back. that's a toxic combination for him. >> it really is. if there's a candidate that can step up and politically make the case. i want to ask david ignatius a question. one of the more intriguing moves, i think, in washington, lately, has been the move of david petraeus from afghanistan

to langley. david ignatius, i've got a feeling you're going to have a few columns that are going to write themselves over the next few years over director petraeus. i certainly hope so. i just spent a week with general petraeus in afghanistan. had a chance to talk to him a lot about the past and the future. it is striking that president obama has managed to take george bush's favorite general, a symbol of george bush's surge in iraq, and make him one of his absolutely key advisers as cia director. petraeus understands that his job going forward, in part, is to try to deal with the loose ends in afghanistan, in iraq, using paramilitary forces, using intelligence assets of various kinds. i think that's part of the deal

that he's accepted. petraeus, as we all know, is an unusual leader. and he's been given a chance by president obama to do something really significant. it will be absolutely fascinate -- that, to me, will be the best spectator show in town for the next year or two. >> and really quickly, i want to ask jack about petraeus as well. but, first, let's talk very briefly about the man who just left that position, you knleon panetta. i remember reading a column of yours from 2009 and you talked about how low the cia was. and after the president gave the speech there, it was right as panetta was coming in as cia director, you said it was as if a car bomb had gone off in the parking lot of langley. most of the people i know, and i know a lot of people at the cia, had contempt for leon panetta when he came in, but felt quite differently about the man when he left.

>> joe, that was panetta's triumph. he came into the cia thinking that cheerleading, general support would be enough. and he found out that he'd really have to fight their battles in washington. the first big battle he fought was with the democratic congress, with speaker pelosi, where he really spoke up for the agency when the democratic leadership was very aggressive in its criticism. and i think that kind of thing over several years won support at the agency. panetta's very frank. he cusses a lot. i've heard descriptions of meetings that would, you know, shock listeners of "morning joe". >> probably not. >> probably not. but anyway, he was a tough-minded director and i think over this time, he did win the confidence of his workforce. >> jack jacobs, you've known the general for a very long time. how do you think he's going to do at the cia? >> i think he's probably going to do very well, although he has

to remember, he can't come in with a big group of people who's close to him. it's not that kind of place. he's going to have to build from the inside. i knew petraeus when he was a cadet at west point about 35 years ago. he was very smart then and he's very smart now. i think one of the major things he is going to accomplish is to fuse the intelligence operations a little bit better between the defense department and the cia. the large majority of the budget that is attributable to intelligence, 80% of it, maybe, belongs to the defense department. the cia doesn't get very much. and i think what's going to happen is that petraeus is going to work very hard to make sure that is there is coordination between the defense department, which produces lots of this information, and the cia, which really needs that information to produce fortuned intelligence. there hasn't been that kind of hookup for a long, long time. >> john? >> i think it's worth saying that historically, to remember,

the key moment with petraeus, the moment obama did something really politically brilliant was the moment when general stanley mcchrystal got in so much trouble and had to leave. and there was a huge question about what that would do to our presence in afghanistan and it was a huge political problem for the administration. and literally on a dime, obama put petraeus in that job and made petraeus obama's general. and that moment, really in some ways, transformed a lot of things for obama in terms of the perception of him from the public, in terms of national security. it was one of the smartest and political moves. he literally turned on a dime. a matter of hours he made that decision. and from then on general petraeus has been barack obama's guy. and that has helped him, politically, enormously, across financial security set of issues ever since. >> mike barnicle, finish the sentence for me, keep your friends close -- >> lyndon johnson -- >> straight out of "the god father," keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

general petraeus had been sort of quietly complaining behind the scenes, just like mcchrystal, about this white house. suddenly mcchrystal goes up in flames and he looks at petraeus and says, general, you're running afghanistan. and then, general, you're running the cia. >> and one of the elements of general petraeus going to the cia and both david and jack just touched upon it is petraeus seems to have a knack for identifying and aligning themselves with really smart people. there are a lot of really smart people in langley working at the cia. and now he's got a defense secretary, leon panetta, who too knows about the talent level at the cia. and the merger of these two institutions, defense department intelligence and cia intelligence and operational staff in the field, it could be the finest days for both units. >> wes, it could be a brilliant move. >> absolutely. and the interesting thing about the move for general petraeus in langley is it's not that much of a stretch from the type of

operations he was really focusing on in afghanistan. when you look at the architect of the counterinsurgency policy, it was general petraeus, general mcchrystal and admiral. you're absolutely right. the transitions in langley is really not that deep of a transition in terms of skill set. >> our thanks to a great panel this morning. john heilemann, mike barnicle, wes moore, david ignatius and jack jacobs. >> well, heilemann wasn't that great. you're right, he was okay. >> there's a limit. >> just trying to be nice. do you have to say everything? there are things that you say and there are things that you think, okay? more "morning joe" when we come back. thanks to the venture card from capital one, we get double miles on every purchase, so me and my lads earned a trip to san francisco twice as fast! we get double miles every time we use our card...

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all right. who's a sports fan? a late night for the red sox and the rays, this one in tampa. a pitcher's dual. josh neiman versus josh beckett. eight innings each, giving up three hits. the game was scoreless heading into extra innings. in the tenth, a game-saving catch by the red sox catcher, josh redeck. stealing it, looks like it might

clear the wall, redeck with that extension. we move ahead six innings. yeah, i said six. that's why she's snoozing. fans asleep top of the 15th. a little help, some mow joe from david ortiz. justin pedroia, the game-winning run with two outs. in the 16th, the red sox finally score. this one lasted five hours and 44 minutes. nearly two "morning joe" broadcasts. the sox ahead of the yankees in the al east. watch this play in yesterday's brewers/rockies game. colorado's dexter fowler laying down a beautiful bunt. brewers' pitcher sean markham races to the ball and turns it around to get fowler at first. bare handing it on his knees, throws off. the brewers would go on to with win 4-3. unbelievable. look at that. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? we'll tell you. erently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer

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by the way, joe and mika back live with with us tomorrow morning. so what did we learn today, governor? >> pat buchanan only has one tie. going to get a debt ceiling at ed's party. >> mazel tov is japanese for congratulations. >> i think i learned abby wambach should be selling excedrin. she could main some good coin that way. t"the daily rundown" with chuck todd starts right